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Dana
Celestial Admin
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 221
Location: Online
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 Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:35 pm Post subject: Xander, the betrayer |
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So I've been watching Buffy from the start once more.. but it's been a while since last time so I'm watching it with new eyes, so to speak. During Season 2 I definitly came to the conclusion that Xander is not a friend one really wants. He gets up this high horse, looks down on everyone (especially Buffy, his favourite object of love and hate) but doesn't find his own mistakes so bad. Of course he sees them as bad but not as bad as he would have had Willow of Buffy made the same ones.
I started thinking about how he's been through the entire series while watching and when I reached the middle of season 3 I really found myself fedd up with him. He takes EVERY oppertunity to throw Ms Calendars murder in Buffy's face when Angel is mentioned. He moves quickly to his own conclusions, wether they are right or wrong (and doesn't budge). What I find so 'funny' is how he reacts later on about Buffy and Spike, and forgets about himself and Cordy, not to mention the fact that he cheated on Cordy and broke her heart.
Sure the guy has his good moments, his humor and whatnot (I don't hate the guy, just don't like him) but I wouldn't want him to be my closest friend. His constant anti-Angel thing in the early seasons really gets me angry and irritated. Funny enough.. he almost never supports the choices of any of the scoobies, but it's ok for him to leave Anya, to cheat on Cordy and to talk down about the guys Buffy and Willow goes out with during the early seasons (with Buffy it's been all the seasons really)
It's so funny, in the last few episodes, he supports Buffy, tells the potentials to trust her and that she's died two times for them but is still standing. And then low and behold, an episode later he's helping people kick her out of her own home, and doesn't trust her anymore. I get that he got hurt when they fought Caleb, but everyone in the scooby gang has been hurt before, didn't lose trust in her then..
Sorry for the rant but he really gets under my skin.. and not in a good way!
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Faith
Angel
Joined: 25 Feb 2007
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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Xander's very much an adolescent boy, though, he's got such castration issues it's just mind blowing, lol. Willow, honestly, was far more judgemental as S3 rolled around - I think they just took turns being assholes or something, lol.
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Vyse
Angel
Joined: 18 Mar 2007
Posts: 5
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| Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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I kind of agree with you, Dana... I often feel the same way. I don't think Xander is that bad, but when he *is* bad, he's truly MEAN!! An example ? "Kick his ass" !!! I almost threw the TV out of the window because of that! 
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Ameer
Angel
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 39
Location: Beneath you, devouring.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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I was ready to murder Xander during Season 3. At the age of 11, that's not a good thing to feel for someone else, lol. Seriously, though, Xander was so annoying (and spiteful) whenever Angel was concerned.
The scene that I hated the most was the intervention scene in 'Revelations' where all of them confront Buffy. In my opinion, it was evident that Xander still had some feelings for Buffy, albeit a little less stronger than earlier, although others tend to disagree with me on this point. However, I have always felt that Xander did not stop having those feelings for Buffy after Season 2.
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Dana
Celestial Admin
Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 221
Location: Online
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Vyse wrote: | | An example ? "Kick his ***" !!! I almost threw the TV out of the window because of that! |
I know the feeling. I was so angry when he said that and this time when I was re-watching the show, I kept remembering when he didn't want Anyanka to be killed and Buffy told him about this moment. The look on Willows face and comment "I never said that!" I so wish they could have gotten more into that because someone really needs to smack him, and good!
| Ameer wrote: | | I was ready to murder Xander during Season 3. At the age of 11, that's not a good thing to feel for someone else, lol. Seriously, though, Xander was so annoying (and spiteful) whenever Angel was concerned. |
 Definitly not good for an 11 year old! but I definitly agree. He got me more and more angry during season 3, he kept getting up on his high horse and look down upon Angel and the others.
And I agree with you, I don't think all his feelings about her had just gone POFF after season 2, during all seasons he's always had a little something for her, one way or another and I think that is was fuelled his adolescent and cruel ways towards her, as if he punished her for not loving him back the same way. The way he acts during Revelations is horrible and.. I can go on but I've already said it before.
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Amber
Angel
Joined: 13 Jan 2007
Posts: 17
Location: Ohio
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| Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:32 am Post subject: |
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See, I've been so back and forth as of late on the issue of Xander. Mainly because of the ongoing Bander debate in relation to the Buffy comics (btw darling are you planning to have a season 8 section cause i would be all over that action). I have been over it and over it, and am currently rewatching season 2 and I have come to the conclusion that I don't think I like xander very much. He's like that person you love cause you have to, but you don't really like them very much. I'm trying to find a time on the show when I actually LIKED Xander and am coming up with very few instances. He is petty, nosy, immature, and not to mention a liar. I think the only reason we cling to Xander as much as we do is because we desperately WANT to like him but he's just so damn unlikable. Also, HELLO he's a cheater. I know he was young and all, but he felt very little guilt over cheating on Cordy all the while Willow felt just AWFUL. She made strides to get back into Oz's good graces after, and he basically walked away from Cordy after one attempt. I won't get into the "did Xanya have an abusive relationship debate," but it irked me the way he always tried to censor her, when honestly, her frankness is what attracted him to her in the first place.
anyway. I am coming down on the side of no. I wouldn't want him as my friend.
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Rua1412
Cherubim
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2007 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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Amber there is a Buffy 8th season thread in the the general Verse discussion if you want to take a look to it.
About Xander  I like Xander.
While I agree that he was petty and judgemental during the first seasons, we shuld remember that he was just a teenager, a horny one on top of it and no matter how much now we know that his attitude toward Buffy and Angel is wrong, at his age, with his same crush, I think that we would act in the same way, or at least I would being no mature like I am now and never being perfect
Anyway Buffy is judgemental too. Sure she needs to judge everything and everyone because the world weigh on her shoulders but she isn't beside to be petty when she wants too. Of course this is worthy for my favorite character too Willow.
How it says that famous passage in the Bible?
"Who is without sin, launch the first rock"
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shred
Celestial Fan Fic Mod
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 227
Location: Singapore
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Honestly, all of Buffy's friends were betrayers when they kicked her out of the house - Xander wasn't the only one. But I understand your point of view.
I understand why Xander was very judgemental of Angel and the relationship between Angel and Buffy in the earlier seasons. Like Carla said, he was a teenager and a teenager who had feelings for Buffy on top of that. Also because he never had any trust in vampires ever since Jesse died and after the whole Angelus debacle, he probably is full of those "I told you so" feelings.
So with that said, I forgive him for being judgemental because he had good reasons to be. But that doesn't mean he was right when he kept throwing Jenny's death at Buffy's face. 
However, there is no excuse to what he did when he agreed to kick Buffy out of her own house - none at all. Honestly, I'm still grasping for reasons why he and the other did that.
If you look at the overall picture, I feel he was more of a friend to Buffy than a betrayer. 
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Rua1412
Cherubim
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Posts: 72
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| Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 11:50 am Post subject: |
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I think there were reasons to kick Buffy off her house.
She is a hero and she lead people to be killed and one of her best friend end hurt losing his eye.
Every hero end being put in discussion when this happen for me.
For me when Xander and the others kick Buffy off her house is a fundamental episode.
Sooner or later, at least Once in seven years, the leadership of Buffy had to be put in argument.
It's in the buggage of every hero, especially a hero that has the capacity of Buffy, that has on her shoulders the weight to protect the world from the Evil.
It was created the ideal situation for this: the absence of Spike, that obviously would have defended her, and “the tactical” error that has cost the life to the potentials it is given from the fact that Buffy is clearly exasperated, she can't wait anymore to be attacked and has the NEED to move in action, no matter how much dangerous it could to be.
All this arrive at the just moment: to three episodes from the great final, the times are mature and there is sufficient space because “the normal” situation will return later, with a Buffy more strong that never and Spike to her side, ready to make the great step that it will come demanded to him at the moment of the final battle, and who better than Xander could do it?
He was with her from begin and without special powers. He lose an eye for her fight and he put his life in danger for her over and over and then even considering that he hadn't the right (among the others) to kick her off... what we should say about Dawn?
Dawn his Buffy's sister and she kick her off too even if Buffy is died for her the precedent season... ungrateful much?
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